Legislature(2011 - 2012)CAPITOL 106
02/16/2012 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB89 | |
| HB254 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SB 89 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 254 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
SB 89-LEGISLATIVE ETHICS ACT
8:06:48 AM
CHAIR LYNN announced that the first order of business was CS FOR
SENATE BILL NO. 89(JUD), "An Act clarifying that a legislator or
legislative employee is allowed to accept certain compassionate
gifts; allowing legislators and legislative employees who are
representing persons in an administrative hearing to contact
hearing officers and attempt to influence the outcome of the
hearing if they are professionals licensed in the state, and
allowing legislators and legislative employees who are not
professionals licensed in the state to contact hearing officers
for the purpose of influencing the outcome of the hearing in
certain instances; requiring the Select Committee on Legislative
Ethics to maintain a public record of certain ethics disclosures
made by legislators and legislative employees; prohibiting a
public member of the Select Committee on Legislative Ethics from
disclosing confidential information without authorization;
clarifying the ethics disclosure requirements for tickets to or
gifts in connection with charity events; amending disclosure
deadlines under the Legislative Ethics Act; relating to requests
to refrain from disclosure under the Legislative Ethics Act;
relating to the applicability of certain provisions of the
Legislative Ethics Act to certain legislative employees,
volunteers, and interns; establishing a seat for an alternate
public member on the Select Committee on Legislative Ethics;
clarifying the requirements related to participation by
alternate public members and alternate legislative members in
the proceedings of the committee; amending the definition of
'legislative employee' in the Legislative Ethics Act; and
repealing a procedure for appointment of alternate legislative
members."
8:07:06 AM
SENATOR JOHN COGHILL, Alaska State Legislature, presented SB 89
as a member of the Senate Judiciary Standing Committee, sponsor.
He related the reason for his selection as presenter was due to
his being a member of the Select Committee on Legislative Ethics
(SCLE). He said the impetus for the bill was the need for
clarification of existing statute that pertains to the state's
ethics laws. He explained that the SCLE sometimes finds itself
in the position of having to ascertain legislative intent.
SENATOR COGHILL said he would talk about the housekeeping
measures of the proposed legislation. He indicated that
currently there are limitations to the administrative hearing
process that prohibit legislators from advocating for
constituents in administrative hearings; however, under SB 89,
some exceptions would be made. One example is that a legislator
who is hired as a lawyer by a person who is his/her constituent
would be allowed to represent that constituent at an
administrative hearing. Another example is that a legislator
who is witness to some of the facts within a case could be
called forward to bear witness. He said if a [legislator] talks
to a constituent without knowing the constituent is involved in
an administrative hearing, "there is an excuse for that called,
'ex parte'."
8:11:09 AM
SENATOR COGHILL relayed that under SB 89, instead of compiling a
list of financial disclosure statements, the SCLE would only
have to keep a report of those lists. In response to the chair,
he clarified that he is talking about state loans. He said he
would defer a question from Representative Petersen, regarding
Alaskan Housing Authority Loans, to someone who could better
provide an answer. Senator Coghill said current confidentiality
requirements apply only to legislative members of the SCLE, and,
under SB 89, the requirements would extend to public members of
the committee. Regarding those who have to "report," he said
those who do not will all be categorized as "hourly" employees:
those who keep the capitol operating but are not involved in
policy work.
8:14:46 AM
SENATOR COGHILL turned next to the substantive issues in SB 89.
He said currently legislators are restricted as to what
charitable gifts they can accept. The proposed legislation
would clarify that a ticket to a charity event from a lobbyist
or gifts received because of the ticket from a lobbyist cannot
exceed $250. The gift would have to be reported, and the event
must be sanctioned by Legislative Council and must be "501c3."
In response to Representative Seaton, regarding whether there is
a distinction between the lobbyist and the organization the
lobbyist represents, said he would address that question
forthcoming.
8:18:33 AM
SENATOR COGHILL said under SB 89, there would be alternate
members for public members of the SCLE, and they would be
appointed by the Alaska Supreme Court justice and confirmed by
the Alaska State Legislature. Furthermore, if an alternate -
public or legislative - gets involved in an issue, he/she would
be held by rules of confidentiality and would see that issue
through to conclusion. Another change under SB 89 would be a
change from the current 30-day reporting deadline to a 60-day
deadline, which would allow legislators flexibility in compiling
the necessary information. Senator Coghill noted that also
under SB 89, there would be ethics training for volunteers who
work [more than] 30 days. In response to Representative P.
Wilson, he said the term, "educational trainees", [in Section 9
of the proposed legislation], would include, for example, a
university student who is serving as an intern to a legislator.
8:22:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if volunteers would include
legislators' spouses and if the 30 days would be 30 consecutive
days, 30 days in a session, or 30 days in a legislature.
SENATOR COGHILL deferred to Joyce Anderson, the administrator
for the SCLE.
8:23:42 AM
SENATOR COGHILL, in response to Representative Johansen, said a
legislator hired by a constituent as an attorney would disclose
that relationship.
8:24:41 AM
JOYCE ANDERSON, Ethics Committee Administrator, Select Committee
on Legislative Ethics, stated that there is a form called,
"representation for compensation," which would be filled out by
"attorneys or other people that are representing clients before
any state agency, board, or commission," and that form must be
disclosed.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN offered his understanding, "So, this
administrative hearing portion is just not included in that, and
we're adding that to this, and it fits right in to what we're
already doing?"
MS. ANDERSON confirmed that is correct.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said currently when an issue becomes an
administrative hearing, legislative staff is no longer allowed
to be involved, and he asked for confirmation that SB 89 would
not change that.
SENATOR COGHILL said that is correct.
8:26:17 AM
SENATOR COGHILL, in response to Representative Johansen, said
[the new language regarding the SCLE's record keeping of loan
information] is on page 6, line 3.
MS. ANDERSON added that the SCLE has a list of state benefits
and loans awarded on a discretionary basis that require
disclosure. In response to Representative Petersen's previous
query, she said the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation (AHFC)
loans are not discretionary loans. In response to
Representative Johansen, she said ADA loans do have to be
disclosed.
8:28:29 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN questioned if there would be less money
for charities as a result of limits placed on charitable giving
by lobbyists.
8:29:57 AM
SENATOR COGHILL reiterated that SB 89 would clarify the $250
limit on charitable gifts given by lobbyists and received by
legislators.
MS. ANDERSON clarified that the $250 limit is already in
statute, but SB 89 is "opening it up to have other individuals,
other than lobbyists, give tickets to you, which are over the
$250 limit." Those gifts would have to be disclosed within 60
days under SB 89.
SENATOR COGHILL offered an example.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN offered his understanding that the
proposed legislation would actually broaden the category.
SENATOR COGHILL, in response to a question, said the need for
the bill was brought by legislators who have found themselves in
awkward positions. He offered examples.
8:34:23 AM
MS. ANDERSON, in response to Representative P. Wilson, said
discretionary loans are those for which there is no fixed
criterion to award the loan. She offered, as examples, the
following loans: the Alaska Capstone Avionics Revolving Loan
Fund; the Commercial Fishing Revolving Loan Fund; and the
Fisheries Enhancement Revolving Loan Fund. She said the list of
loans that are awarded on a discretionary basis is approximately
two and a half pages long.
MS. ANDERSON, in response to Representative P. Wilson, said the
aforementioned $250 limit on tickets to charity events given to
legislators by lobbyists is a limit set each year and per
lobbyist. The lobbyists are required to report the gifts they
give legislators on the lobbyist disclosure form.
8:39:50 AM
SENATOR COGHILL, in response to Representative Seaton, stated
the following:
The lobbyist is given a definite amount that they
cannot exceed: $250, cumulative, per year. But those
that are non-lobbyists are now able to do that, but
there's three very clear conditions: they must report
it; it has to be a 501(c)(3); and it has to be
sanctioned by the [Legislative] Council. So, it's all
very clearly reported as to who is giving, but they
are able to give beyond the $250 limit.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked for confirmation that in the case of
a company with three lobbyists, each lobbyist can give a
legislator a ticket valued up to $250 for a sanctioned event.
MS. ANDERSON answered that is correct.
8:42:04 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN asked who sets the values related to
charitable events. He said he can see that legislators might
receive better seats or food at a charitable event.
MS. ANDERSON replied that that very issue is being brought
before the SCLE at its 9 a.m. meeting the following Thursday,
2/23/12, and a draft advisory opinion will be heard. She said
the advisory opinion suggests that in an event where there is
more than one price, the committee would consider that a person
could have taken part in the event at the lowest price.
Regarding travel, she said most times there are costs associated
with that travel, but not always. She said, "The statute uses
the ... fair market value, and so, we would look at that and see
if we could come up with some sort of a cost."
8:45:28 AM
SENATOR COGHILL presented the Sectional Analysis. Section 1
read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Sec. 1. Replaces "lawful gratuity" with "gift" to make
section of law consistent with the usage of "gift".
8:47:52 AM
SENATOR COGHILL, in response to Representative Seaton, said he
thinks the word "knowingly", on page 4, line 3, and on page 6,
line 20, "applies in both cases."
8:48:19 AM
MS. ANDERSON concurred. She noted that there is a definition of
"knowingly" in statute.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he is happy to have it on the record
that the SCLE agrees that "knowingly" also applies to "make
false statements".
8:48:41 AM
SENATOR COGHILL directed attention to Section 2 in the sectional
analysis, which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Sec. 2. Bright line for legislators or staff being
actively involved in constituent problems with the
State. Once the issue is assigned to an administrative
hearing the involvement of the legislative office
ceases. Exceptions are included for lawyers and
provision for inadvertent ex parte contact.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON recollected the statement was made that a
[legislator who is a] lawyer acting on behalf of his/her client
would report that activity. He queried, "I thought doctors and
lawyers were exempt from reporting ... the names of their
clients; am I mistaken in that?"
MS. ANDERSON responded that ethics statute does require [a
legislator] to report [when he is acting as a lawyer on behalf
of a client]. She said no one has questioned that reporting in
the past. She said there has only been one individual in the
past who has actually reported representation for compensation
and did so for 10-12 clients. That legislator listed the names
of the clients and the boards before which he/she was
representing those clients.
SENATOR COGHILL noted that new language was proposed in Section
8, which would provide that "a person" may submit a written
request to refrain from making a disclosure that is required by
this chapter if making the disclosure would violate state or
federal law".
8:52:15 AM
SENATOR COGHILL turned to Sections 3-7 of the sectional
analysis, which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Sec. 3. Eliminates requirement of committee to compile
lists of financial disclosure statements. They must
only maintain public records and forward them to chief
clerk and senate secretary.
Sec. 4. Adds public members to statute prohibiting
disclosure of confidential information.
Sec. 5. Clarifies that a ticket to a charity event
from a lobbyist, or gifts received because of the
ticket from a lobbyist cannot exceed $250.
Sec. 6. Further describes "a contribution to a charity
event" by clarifying it could be a ticket to a charity
event or a gift in connection with a charity event.
Sec. 7. Extend the reporting period for gifts of
travel for the purpose of obtaining information on
legislative matters and disclosure of gifts from
charitable events from 30 days to 60 days.
8:55:13 AM
MS. ANDERSON, in response to Representative Seaton, said AS
24.60.030 states that legislators may solicit and accept
contributions for a charity event, because a contribution to a
charity event is not considered a gift.
8:55:46 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER turned attention to Section 2 and the
phrase, "administrative hearing". He expressed concern that
without a definition, that phrase may be misinterpreted.
8:57:17 AM
SENATOR COGHILL noted that there are administrative law judges.
He said the Dental Board has disciplinary action for dentists,
and he said the question is: "Should we go to bat for a dentist
at that board when they really are going to have legal counsel?"
He continued as follows:
And so, I think that is what we were trying to say is
we're not really the legal counsel; we're the
legislator. ... We're advocates for them generally,
but to advocate for them specifically in a matter of
law then starts to get into that area where we might
be stepping out of our bounds. So, it's probably not
as tight as many would like, but that's the best
definition I think we can come up with.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER ventured that stating that for the record
is probably sufficient.
SENATOR COGHILL, in response to Chair Lynn, said the point is
that legislators are not to use their power to overly influence
a hearing. He stated that a legislator is meant to be a public
servant, to help and advocate for his/her constituent; however,
there comes a point where too much influence can be destructive
to justice. He said there are many times where administrative
action, because of rules, can be arcane and unjust. He said he
thinks the job of the legislature is to find out where the rules
are unjust and advocate for change.
SENATOR COGHILL pointed to a handout [included in the committee
packet] showing the definitions in AS 44.64.200 for:
"administrative hearing", "administrative law judge", "agency",
"hearing officer", and "office". He said he would defer to the
House State Affairs Standing Committee as to whether these
definitions should be included in SB 89; however, he asked the
committee to consider that when the SCLE makes decisions based
on nuance, it would most likely "look into this issue."
9:01:02 AM
SENATOR COGHILL, in response to Representative Johansen, stated
that the intent of law is to ensure that legislators are using
their authority correctly for constituent work. He said "this"
deals with constituent work and "what you may be able to do up
to the point of administrative hearings." He said care must be
taken by legislators not to influence the outcome of a hearing,
because to do so would be unethical. In response to the chair,
he reiterated that the moment an administrative hearing begins
is key.
9:05:12 AM
SENATOR COGHILL, in response to Representative Petersen,
confirmed that it is up to the legislators to know and be able
to convey to their constituents the point at which they must say
when they cannot go any further on the constituents' behalf. In
response to Chair Lynn, he said SB 89 proposes that a legislator
be allowed to testify at an administrative hearing when he/she
is a party to or witness to something that is vital to the
administrative hearing. Under current law, he said, that is
prohibited. He said a legislator may not realize that he/she is
giving advice to someone who is involved in an administrative
hearing.
9:07:40 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if it would be helpful to the SCLE
to include in the bill the definition of "administrative
hearing", which read as follows:
Sec. 44.64.200. Definitions.
In this chapter,
(1) "administrative hearing" means a quasi-
judicial hearing before an agency; it does not include
an informal conference or review held by an agency
before a final decision is issued or a rate-making
proceeding or other nonadjudicative public hearing;
9:09:14 AM
SENATOR COGHILL said he knows of no reason to keep that
definition out of the bill.
9:09:37 AM
SENATOR COGHILL, in response to Representative Johansen and
Chair Lynn, said he would like to think about how best to add
that language.
9:11:42 AM
SENATOR COGHILL directed attention to Sections 8-12 of the
sectional analysis, which read as follows [original punctuation
provided]:
Sec. 8. Allows for exceptions from disclosure under
the legislative ethics law if it would be in violation
of the state or federal constitution or state or
federal law. The State Affairs Committee added
language that includes exceptions for disclosures for
a rule, adopted formally by a trade or profession,
that state or federal law requires the person to
follow. A written request with justification must be
submitted to the committee.
Sec. 9. Requires anyone who is a volunteer or
educational trainee for more than 30 days to take the
ethics training. The 30 day guideline was added in
State Affairs.
Sec. 10. Adds cite for new section on Alternate
Members to statute describing the committee, its
structure and its duties.
Sec. 11. Adds cite for new section on Alternate
Members to statute describing the committee, its
structure and its duties.
Sec. 12. This is a new section describing the process
for appointing alternates. The section adds a new
provision that provides for the Chief Justice to
appoint an alternate public member.
SENATOR COGHILL said Section 12 pertains to quorums and the
requirement that once an alternate member becomes involved in a
discussion involving confidentiality, he/she follows the
discussion through to its conclusion.
9:13:24 AM
MS. ANDERSON interjected that the SCLE has two quorums to meet:
one of public members and one of legislators.
9:13:40 AM
SENATOR COGHILL noted that travel is involved for public members
of the SCLE.
9:13:51 AM
SENATOR COGHILL turned to Sections 13-15 in the sectional
analysis, which read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Sec. 13. Adds legislative volunteers and educational
trainees who are in that capacity for more than 30
days to the statute requiring the Legislative ethics
course. The 30 day guideline was added in State
Affairs.
Sec. 14. Redefines legislative employee.
Sec. 15. Repeals old statute describing the process
for appointing alternates.
9:14:57 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said next time the bill is heard he will
want a good definition of an hourly employee, because he does
not want to exempt anyone who works on policy.
SENATOR COGHILL directed attention to language on page 13,
[lines 21-22], which read as follows:
it does not include individuals who are hourly
employees who perform functions that are incidental to
legislative functions
SENATOR COGHILL said that if someone was an hourly employee and
working on functions that were beyond incidental, that would be
clear to the SCLE. He said he thinks the language makes it
clear that anyone involved in policy questions must be
reporting.
9:16:17 AM
MS. ANDERSON provided examples of hourly employees.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN noted that legislators have the option
to hire staff on an hourly basis, and he wanted it clear for the
record that "we don't have staff that is exempted from anything
just because they're hourly."
MS. ANDERSON pointed out that "those employees" do not "perform
functions that are incidental."
SENATOR COGHILL noted that throughout the bill title, both
legislators and legislative employees are "included in almost
all recording requirements."
9:17:36 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON reminded Senator Coghill that at the next
bill hearing he would like to know whether Section 9 includes
spouses, and whether 30 consecutive days refers to per session
or per legislature.
9:18:35 AM
CHAIR LYNN announced that SB 89 was held over.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 01 HB0254A.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HB 254 |
| 02 HB 254 Sponsor Statement.PDF |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HB 254 |
| 03HB 254 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HB 254 |
| 04 HB 254 Amendment 27-LS1145- A 2.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HB 254 |
| 05 HB254-DCCED-DCRA-02-10-12.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HB 254 |
| 06 HB 254 SB 130 Letters of Support.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
HB 254 SB 130 |
| 01 SB89 Version R from (S)JUD.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
SB 89 |
| 02 SB89 Sponsor Statement Version R (2).pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
SB 89 |
| 03 SB89 Sectional for Version R.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
SB 89 |
| 04 SB 89 Backup Ethics Committee Advisory Opinions.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
SB 89 |
| 05 SB 89 Backup Ethics Committee Minutes Relevant.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
SB 89 |
| 06 SB 89 Backup NCSL Links to States' Legislative Ethics Codes.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
SB 89 |
| 07 SB0089-2-2-013012-LEG-N.pdf |
HSTA 2/16/2012 8:00:00 AM |
SB 89 |